Dependency - Sundog (11) - Dependency (CD, Album)

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Amazing article! Just realized all the heroes I play are basically in the low investment utlity semi carry section, cause I dislike farming. There's some decent commentary there, but I think that you kind of contradicted yourself and got lost on the way to making your point. You say you're going to define 'carry' and then get lost in a tangent about farm dependency instead of clearly defining the term; you say you hate the term 'hard carry' but then make a huge point of the other sub-group, 'semi-carry'.

The effect is that I'm left wondering how Necrolyte isn't a carry if the definition is 'farm dependent', and how Bounty Hunter and Elder Titan are semi-carries given that they can perform their primary function without any farm at all hence why we've seen them trend towards supporting roles. There may be correlation vs causation issues here: a BH that is winning and doing his job will naturally get gold farm ; similarly, while ET isn't a farmer, he wins dota by winning teamfights - and so a winning ET will have gold, while a losing ET will have nothing.

But that's kind of minor - a lot of your conclusions are good, and with how complex dota is, basing any idea of 'role' on end-of-game numbers can lead to some questionable stuff.

Personally, I agree with your premise that distinguishing hard carries is silly; I think this also applies to semi-carries and that you may be confusing the issue with your sub-groups, which fit my understanding of a 'core' rather than carry. As an example, everyone knows that a lategame dark seer can be terrifying, but it's not thought of as a carry. Anyway, that got a little nitpick-ey and convoluted; I could stand to listen to my own advice. Cool write-up all things considered.

Good write-up but ultimately all the terms are basically meaningless in trying to label heroes as a specific kind of carry. Support or core works just fine.

All that really matters is how much farm allocation a particular hero gets, doesnt really matter if its a "hard carry" or a "High Investment Utility Semi-Carry" at the end of the day does it? Thank you for your article.

I got lost in the middle as the words keep pilling up. Where's broodmother fit in? She has scaling right click-- why does she suck anyway? Fantastic read. Makes me want to get back into statistics!!

I also really appreciate how you qualify the different roles with new terminology. Actually, I think that's this paper's strength. Operational definitions are severely lacking in video game commentary. I must say, though, that "Pseudo-carry Semi-carry" offers basically no clarification of the role. I think there's another distinction in there for clarity's sake. Lol Dota White Paper. I really enjoyed the style of this article. I'd love to see more pieces like this.

This is a really good article. As a musician myself, I found the analogy between drafting and composing to be insightful, accurate and clever. Great job! I also disagree with the assessment of 'high investment utility semicarries' because frankly, the heroes in that pool such as clockwork and panda etc are not really carries, nor semi-carries at all.

Live Events. Secret vs Alliance 2h 21m. No Upcoming Events. Liquipedia Results Completed. Remember Me. All Data provided by datDota. It's certainly not a new sentiment, but 6. As cool as that fact is, the downside is it can make it extremely difficult to figure out what's going on with hero picks? Why do some pairings work while others flounder? Why is a particular hero's performances so extremely mercurial?

Why is Mirana such a bad carry? Well, what I'm going to try to accomplish here today is to provide you with a framework that explains the mechanics that govern hero interaction in Dota, and to begin that we need to start with the concept of Farm Dependency. Farm Dependency and the definition of "Carry" A while back I came up with an extremely simple statistical test.

I take a ton of high level pub games, and I measure the correlation between a particular hero's rate of farm and whether they win the game. With some outside help, I now have a slightly more advanced version that you can read about here , but the general principle is the same.

People will of course complain about correlation! You can find all kind of stupid correlations if you just rub two random sets of numbers together, but it's clearly not the case that farm and winning are unrelated variables I just picked out of a hat.

Every time we open the gold graph in-game we do so under the assumption that gold advantages create wins, and when we encounter major come-from-behind victories, we measure them by the size of the gold lead that was overcome. From there it's an incredibly small step to theorize that certain leads are more or less stable by virtue of the heroes on the right and wrong ends of the deficit. Here's an example of what I found from patch 6. Partly this is an issue of sample size, and partly this is just Dota's wonderfully hazy ambiguity that you eventually come to love.

There are certain factors that I feel might systemically over and underrate certain heroes. And on top of both of those points there is also the issue of differences between pub and competitive culture. But aside those concerns, there is a specific consistency in the heroes that populate the tops of these lists: they always have some form of innate right click scaling. In a pattern that is infinitely repeated throughout all of Dota's mechanics, there's a tension between the flat damage potential of nukes and the scaling damage potential of right click.

During the early-mid game, nuke damage is high relative to HP pools, but you have extremely limited means to amplify it through gold. Introspection Late Night Partying. Rainy Day Relaxation Road Trip. Romantic Evening Sex All Themes. Features Interviews Lists.

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8 thoughts on “Dependency - Sundog (11) - Dependency (CD, Album)”

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